![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
(Sorry, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
the_red_shoes, it was 47nite's idea.)
It's the first letter of MY name anyway, so I dig it. (I've never met a Rebecca in the media that I've really liked though, I think. It seems to be a popular name for villains and those bitchy girls who had nice nails and made fun of you in high school.)
1. Comment on this post.
2. I will give you a letter.
3. Think of 5 fictional characters whose name starts with that letter and post their names and your comments on these characters in your LJ.
1.) Reuven Malter, The Chosen/The Promise/Davita's Harp (I can't find a pic, so check out the out-of-place dork with the glasses)
47nite and I used to talk a lot about stories told by the non-principal character, and Reuven Malter is the penultimate Nick Carraway of Chaim Potok's novels.
Despite being our POV character in both The Chosen and The Promise, Reuven is usually in orbit to another character, primarily Danny Saunders in the first book and Michael Gordon in the second book. However, in truth many times Reuven is our guide to the trials and tribulations of many great men in the Jewish community. I say great men, because while women are smart and loving and not deserving of their lesser status in the Jewish community, they're still subordinate to the great men and not really full characters in The Chosen and The Promise. Yet its ironic that when Potok DID finally learn to write full-fledged female characters in Davita's Harp he brings Reuven Malter in for a cameo appearance. Like Reuven always has to watch the goings on around him. (OK, to be fair, I think by the time Potok got to Asher Lev's mom he was already improving, but you see my point, right?)
Reuven is a smart young man, and, like any good character, he has a motivation of his own -- he wants to be a rabbi. Yet he is in orbit to the other characters, because he is essentially our guide. He's a religious Jew, but a modern, progressive one. He, and by proxy, the readers, can respect the traditions of more Orthodox Jews around him because he has respect for the fundamentals even as some of their practices disgust him and, by proxy, us. He works as both insider and outsider, and thus creates the perfect bridge to the reader.
Yet he remains a secondary player in his own life. Reuven Malter's primary problems are the source of others: his sick/disgraced father, his incomprehensible friend, his tyrannical friend's father, a little boy he mentors are what causes Reuven trouble. This is different from Asher Lev and Ilana Davita Chandall. Both characters bear the burdens of their parents -- Asher his mother's sickliness and father's religiosity, Ilana her parents' radical politics and aftermath of one of their deaths -- but when the climax of the story comes, it revolves around the consequences of their choices.
I don't think Asher or Ilana would find it fair, given that Reuven leaves both of his stories unscathed and Asher and Ilana find themselves having to compromise something at the end of their stories, and yet in some ways Reuven's troubles come from resenting his secondary status in the story. He doesn't want to be the vessel for others, and yet it shall always be his role. Maybe it's unfair, but if he wants to be a rabbi, perhaps it's what he ultimately needs to learn. Chaim Potok is dead now. I don't think he ever planned a part three for Reuven's story, but I'd like to think that Reuven doesn't need one, because that's probably what he did with the rest of his life -- listened, and by listening, helped others.
2.) Rorschach, Watchmen (Picture here.)
I don't want to tempt47nite too much with spoilers, and I've said a lot about Rorschach already. I just want to say that it's fascinating to me how seductive Rorschach is to readers, particuarly since it doesn't follow given everything we learn about him. He's weird, he smells, he's a right-wing moral absolutist and he's probably a homophobic racist. Also, while I think one of the characters he's based on, The Question, has fans, he's also based on Mr. A, who is nearly impossible to like.
Of course, one of the reasons I like him so much is he's got the DARQUE SECRET and the TROUBLED PAST, but those can be an anathema if put in the wrong hands. (Like the actor for a certain character's bullshit invented backstory which makes no sense. But we're not talking about that character right now.) I think it works for me because ... well, I like his dark secret. It's one thing to be a superhero because you've had an otherwise privileged life but something bad happened to you. It's another thing to outright start at the very fucking bottom of the class level. Outright villains in many other comic book stories had cushier lives than Rorschach but are still motivated to do selfish things that lead to us seeing them as villains. In Rorschach it inspires a viciousness and brutality that many comic book villains wouldn't come close to touching.
But is Rorschach a real hero? At the end of the book, we consider him so ... but for me, the like is always uncomfortable. Should I like him? I keep asking. I know I shouldn't ... and yet I do.
It's like a recursive loop. But that's probably the best part of the story.
3.) Randal Graves, Clerks/Clerks: Uncensored/Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back/The Flying Car/Clerks II (Picture here)
And speaking of characters who you know you SHOULDN'T like but do anyway ...
Randal is an interesting character because he's one of Kevin Smith's most obnoxious creations, with the exception of Jay. Most of Smith's "sidekick" characters are a bit hair-pulling. I don't think I would ever want Brodie or Banky as a friend, yet they're not quite as bad. Banky can be an uncouth, homophobic loudmouth but he's dedicated to his mutual creation with Holden and has moments where he's shown to be a true-blue friend. And Brodie ... well, Jason Lee is a far more dynamic actor than Jeremy London, so the audience ends up sympathizing with him by default. But Randal doesn't get anything resembling Banky's serious dramatic scenes until Clerks II, and Dante, despite the fact that Brian O'Halloran unfairly remains critics' whipping boy, is likable enough that we still see him as the protagonist.
Randal delights in being a bad person. In the first film, he constantly not only defends his destructive choices, but also argues that they are laudable. This goes to a much larger extreme in the cartoons, where Randal obeys all laws of sanity and goes out of his way to make bad situations much worse just because he wants to see Dante squirm. By the time The Flying Car rolled out, Randal had knocked it down a bit and just delighted in teasing Dante. It's only in Clerks II that he starts to look at himself and make hard choices in his life and his life with Dante ... but by that time he also had Elias to torture.
But in all incarnations of Clerks, Randal and Dante make a unique pair. Randal sees himself as a bad person, but one with principles who can make his own freedom. Dante sees himself as a good person tied down by bad situations. And, ironically, Randal seems to be the one who makes the more correct choices in the big picture. So we like him because at the end of the (work)day, he may not be as relatable as Dante, but he has the more honest view of himself.
4.) Rei Ayanami, Neon Genesis Evangelion (Picture here.)
You know, in retrospect I wish I'd read "Angelic Days" before I sat down to write this ...
Rei Ayanami isn't my favorite character in EVA. The other two main female characters on the show, Asuka and Misato, are split on that one. I don't have a strong opinion on Rei, which I find interesting because everyone else in the universe does.
I tend to have found more people who like her than hate her. And those who like her seem to be imposing their own sort of ideals on her. They like the IDEA of a stoic character who says little and seems like any emotion is accidental. I think they see depth there, like the cool surface of the water that betrays the turbulence within or something. (One person I knew said she loved the character because she "was gorgeous." Another person based their angst-filled OC on the character.) I tend to agree more with Asuka -- she's a tabula rasa doll -- but I forgive her because it seems like she was meant to be that way. Someone once told me they saw Rei as angsty. I don't agree. I think with Rei, what you see is what you get: nothing. There's a reason she shares her name with a "0". And I would insert a didactic "Story of O" comparison here, but I'm getting pretentious enough as it is by even analyzing EVA in the first place.
But could Rei be anything more? I think Rei's character is fascinating enough that we hope she could be. And I think even the creators aren't immune to that wish. In the original ending to the series, the one with Shinji's fantasies, Shinji sees her as a charming, bubbly human being, but there is no evidence in the text to support she would be like that. Her tragedy is not that she missed having a chance to be that person, her tragedy is that she never, ever, ever would have had one in the first place. She's a being from a test tube and Shinji's fantasy is just that. If is mother has lived, Rei probably never would have existed at all. And yet Shinji seems to want more from Rei (yeah, yeah). I think everyone else does, too.
5.) Ralph, Liberty Meadows (Picture here)
Poor Ralph. He's like the forgotten character of Liberty Meadows. He's not the main character, like Frank. He's not a hot babe, like Brandy and Jen. He's not cute, like Truman and Oscar, and he doesn't have a defining comedic trait, like Leslie or Dean. But I have to admit I've had some affection for the character ever since he appeared in group therapy claiming in a headband and jacket and claiming he was "Michael Flatley, Lord of the Dance"! He's also kind of a versatile character. He can play the straight man to Leslie or Dean, and in the next strip be the mastermind of a grand scheme that will inevitably lead to him getting into trouble. I like Ralph. He's lots of fun.
... What? Did you expect something huge on this guy. Give me a break, willya?
Oh all right ...
BONUS 6.) Rose Walker, Sandman -- Because this list has too much testosterone! (Picture here - sorry, I couldn't find much.)
Rose Walker is one of the mortals we end up really remembering in Sandman. The Endless are so overpowering that they often run over the little people who look up at them, but Rose is the main character for two of the big storylines, and impossible to ignore.
I'm not immune to the Endless' aura. The human character I find most compelling in Sandman is William Shakespeare. (The final story in the series, The Tempest, is how I always want to imagine Shakespeare was like, and I re-read that story often.) Well, OK, I like Wanda a lot, too, even if her ultimate fate is probably not going to be received well as the years go on, "tragic minority" and all that and ... OK, whatever. Digression going on to long.
Anyway, I think Rose is important because just when we're starting to emphasize with Morpheus the most and be the most wrapped up in his dramas, Rose drags us down to Earth. Her presence in "A Doll's House" reminds us that we aren't in control, the Endless are, and to assume we can be their friends is folly, because they can turn on us in any minute.
And yet Rose remains kind of distant from us as well. Something I find kind of interesting about Sandman is how it has a cast of hundreds and yet we don't get super-close to anybody. I think the first issue sort of pushes in our face that the Gods are capricious, which makes it all the more amazing that the last trade is so life-affirming and uplifting. Even he who caused the first sin in Sandman is forgiven. It's unthinkable.
AND AAARGH! I HAVE TO GET BACK TO ROSE! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME? I SUCK AT THIS GAME!
Anyway, Rose is unique because both of her stories are about a death and rebirth, in some manner. When Morpheus is at his weakest points - when he's returning to his kingdom less strong than he used to be at the beginning and when he's facing the end - she is also at hers. They both face identical trials by fire and come out out different people, yet they remain at total opposites from each other. They could maybe relate if things were different, but both of them are alone in their hearts. And because Gaiman puts us at a distance from them and divides our loyalties, not even we can understand them.
I ... hope all of this made some sense. I got super-loquacious, I guess.
the_red_shoes, it was 47nite's idea.)It's the first letter of MY name anyway, so I dig it. (I've never met a Rebecca in the media that I've really liked though, I think. It seems to be a popular name for villains and those bitchy girls who had nice nails and made fun of you in high school.)
1. Comment on this post.
2. I will give you a letter.
3. Think of 5 fictional characters whose name starts with that letter and post their names and your comments on these characters in your LJ.
1.) Reuven Malter, The Chosen/The Promise/Davita's Harp (I can't find a pic, so check out the out-of-place dork with the glasses)
47nite and I used to talk a lot about stories told by the non-principal character, and Reuven Malter is the penultimate Nick Carraway of Chaim Potok's novels.Despite being our POV character in both The Chosen and The Promise, Reuven is usually in orbit to another character, primarily Danny Saunders in the first book and Michael Gordon in the second book. However, in truth many times Reuven is our guide to the trials and tribulations of many great men in the Jewish community. I say great men, because while women are smart and loving and not deserving of their lesser status in the Jewish community, they're still subordinate to the great men and not really full characters in The Chosen and The Promise. Yet its ironic that when Potok DID finally learn to write full-fledged female characters in Davita's Harp he brings Reuven Malter in for a cameo appearance. Like Reuven always has to watch the goings on around him. (OK, to be fair, I think by the time Potok got to Asher Lev's mom he was already improving, but you see my point, right?)
Reuven is a smart young man, and, like any good character, he has a motivation of his own -- he wants to be a rabbi. Yet he is in orbit to the other characters, because he is essentially our guide. He's a religious Jew, but a modern, progressive one. He, and by proxy, the readers, can respect the traditions of more Orthodox Jews around him because he has respect for the fundamentals even as some of their practices disgust him and, by proxy, us. He works as both insider and outsider, and thus creates the perfect bridge to the reader.
Yet he remains a secondary player in his own life. Reuven Malter's primary problems are the source of others: his sick/disgraced father, his incomprehensible friend, his tyrannical friend's father, a little boy he mentors are what causes Reuven trouble. This is different from Asher Lev and Ilana Davita Chandall. Both characters bear the burdens of their parents -- Asher his mother's sickliness and father's religiosity, Ilana her parents' radical politics and aftermath of one of their deaths -- but when the climax of the story comes, it revolves around the consequences of their choices.
I don't think Asher or Ilana would find it fair, given that Reuven leaves both of his stories unscathed and Asher and Ilana find themselves having to compromise something at the end of their stories, and yet in some ways Reuven's troubles come from resenting his secondary status in the story. He doesn't want to be the vessel for others, and yet it shall always be his role. Maybe it's unfair, but if he wants to be a rabbi, perhaps it's what he ultimately needs to learn. Chaim Potok is dead now. I don't think he ever planned a part three for Reuven's story, but I'd like to think that Reuven doesn't need one, because that's probably what he did with the rest of his life -- listened, and by listening, helped others.
2.) Rorschach, Watchmen (Picture here.)
I don't want to tempt
47nite too much with spoilers, and I've said a lot about Rorschach already. I just want to say that it's fascinating to me how seductive Rorschach is to readers, particuarly since it doesn't follow given everything we learn about him. He's weird, he smells, he's a right-wing moral absolutist and he's probably a homophobic racist. Also, while I think one of the characters he's based on, The Question, has fans, he's also based on Mr. A, who is nearly impossible to like.Of course, one of the reasons I like him so much is he's got the DARQUE SECRET and the TROUBLED PAST, but those can be an anathema if put in the wrong hands. (Like the actor for a certain character's bullshit invented backstory which makes no sense. But we're not talking about that character right now.) I think it works for me because ... well, I like his dark secret. It's one thing to be a superhero because you've had an otherwise privileged life but something bad happened to you. It's another thing to outright start at the very fucking bottom of the class level. Outright villains in many other comic book stories had cushier lives than Rorschach but are still motivated to do selfish things that lead to us seeing them as villains. In Rorschach it inspires a viciousness and brutality that many comic book villains wouldn't come close to touching.
But is Rorschach a real hero? At the end of the book, we consider him so ... but for me, the like is always uncomfortable. Should I like him? I keep asking. I know I shouldn't ... and yet I do.
It's like a recursive loop. But that's probably the best part of the story.
3.) Randal Graves, Clerks/Clerks: Uncensored/Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back/The Flying Car/Clerks II (Picture here)
And speaking of characters who you know you SHOULDN'T like but do anyway ...
Randal is an interesting character because he's one of Kevin Smith's most obnoxious creations, with the exception of Jay. Most of Smith's "sidekick" characters are a bit hair-pulling. I don't think I would ever want Brodie or Banky as a friend, yet they're not quite as bad. Banky can be an uncouth, homophobic loudmouth but he's dedicated to his mutual creation with Holden and has moments where he's shown to be a true-blue friend. And Brodie ... well, Jason Lee is a far more dynamic actor than Jeremy London, so the audience ends up sympathizing with him by default. But Randal doesn't get anything resembling Banky's serious dramatic scenes until Clerks II, and Dante, despite the fact that Brian O'Halloran unfairly remains critics' whipping boy, is likable enough that we still see him as the protagonist.
Randal delights in being a bad person. In the first film, he constantly not only defends his destructive choices, but also argues that they are laudable. This goes to a much larger extreme in the cartoons, where Randal obeys all laws of sanity and goes out of his way to make bad situations much worse just because he wants to see Dante squirm. By the time The Flying Car rolled out, Randal had knocked it down a bit and just delighted in teasing Dante. It's only in Clerks II that he starts to look at himself and make hard choices in his life and his life with Dante ... but by that time he also had Elias to torture.
But in all incarnations of Clerks, Randal and Dante make a unique pair. Randal sees himself as a bad person, but one with principles who can make his own freedom. Dante sees himself as a good person tied down by bad situations. And, ironically, Randal seems to be the one who makes the more correct choices in the big picture. So we like him because at the end of the (work)day, he may not be as relatable as Dante, but he has the more honest view of himself.
4.) Rei Ayanami, Neon Genesis Evangelion (Picture here.)
You know, in retrospect I wish I'd read "Angelic Days" before I sat down to write this ...
Rei Ayanami isn't my favorite character in EVA. The other two main female characters on the show, Asuka and Misato, are split on that one. I don't have a strong opinion on Rei, which I find interesting because everyone else in the universe does.
I tend to have found more people who like her than hate her. And those who like her seem to be imposing their own sort of ideals on her. They like the IDEA of a stoic character who says little and seems like any emotion is accidental. I think they see depth there, like the cool surface of the water that betrays the turbulence within or something. (One person I knew said she loved the character because she "was gorgeous." Another person based their angst-filled OC on the character.) I tend to agree more with Asuka -- she's a tabula rasa doll -- but I forgive her because it seems like she was meant to be that way. Someone once told me they saw Rei as angsty. I don't agree. I think with Rei, what you see is what you get: nothing. There's a reason she shares her name with a "0". And I would insert a didactic "Story of O" comparison here, but I'm getting pretentious enough as it is by even analyzing EVA in the first place.
But could Rei be anything more? I think Rei's character is fascinating enough that we hope she could be. And I think even the creators aren't immune to that wish. In the original ending to the series, the one with Shinji's fantasies, Shinji sees her as a charming, bubbly human being, but there is no evidence in the text to support she would be like that. Her tragedy is not that she missed having a chance to be that person, her tragedy is that she never, ever, ever would have had one in the first place. She's a being from a test tube and Shinji's fantasy is just that. If is mother has lived, Rei probably never would have existed at all. And yet Shinji seems to want more from Rei (yeah, yeah). I think everyone else does, too.
5.) Ralph, Liberty Meadows (Picture here)
Poor Ralph. He's like the forgotten character of Liberty Meadows. He's not the main character, like Frank. He's not a hot babe, like Brandy and Jen. He's not cute, like Truman and Oscar, and he doesn't have a defining comedic trait, like Leslie or Dean. But I have to admit I've had some affection for the character ever since he appeared in group therapy claiming in a headband and jacket and claiming he was "Michael Flatley, Lord of the Dance"! He's also kind of a versatile character. He can play the straight man to Leslie or Dean, and in the next strip be the mastermind of a grand scheme that will inevitably lead to him getting into trouble. I like Ralph. He's lots of fun.
... What? Did you expect something huge on this guy. Give me a break, willya?
Oh all right ...
BONUS 6.) Rose Walker, Sandman -- Because this list has too much testosterone! (Picture here - sorry, I couldn't find much.)
Rose Walker is one of the mortals we end up really remembering in Sandman. The Endless are so overpowering that they often run over the little people who look up at them, but Rose is the main character for two of the big storylines, and impossible to ignore.
I'm not immune to the Endless' aura. The human character I find most compelling in Sandman is William Shakespeare. (The final story in the series, The Tempest, is how I always want to imagine Shakespeare was like, and I re-read that story often.) Well, OK, I like Wanda a lot, too, even if her ultimate fate is probably not going to be received well as the years go on, "tragic minority" and all that and ... OK, whatever. Digression going on to long.
Anyway, I think Rose is important because just when we're starting to emphasize with Morpheus the most and be the most wrapped up in his dramas, Rose drags us down to Earth. Her presence in "A Doll's House" reminds us that we aren't in control, the Endless are, and to assume we can be their friends is folly, because they can turn on us in any minute.
And yet Rose remains kind of distant from us as well. Something I find kind of interesting about Sandman is how it has a cast of hundreds and yet we don't get super-close to anybody. I think the first issue sort of pushes in our face that the Gods are capricious, which makes it all the more amazing that the last trade is so life-affirming and uplifting. Even he who caused the first sin in Sandman is forgiven. It's unthinkable.
AND AAARGH! I HAVE TO GET BACK TO ROSE! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME? I SUCK AT THIS GAME!
Anyway, Rose is unique because both of her stories are about a death and rebirth, in some manner. When Morpheus is at his weakest points - when he's returning to his kingdom less strong than he used to be at the beginning and when he's facing the end - she is also at hers. They both face identical trials by fire and come out out different people, yet they remain at total opposites from each other. They could maybe relate if things were different, but both of them are alone in their hearts. And because Gaiman puts us at a distance from them and divides our loyalties, not even we can understand them.
I ... hope all of this made some sense. I got super-loquacious, I guess.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
From:
Rei is just the training period for Kaworu, we all know that ...
Maybe I should think of watching those new movies ...
And yeah, I want you to enjoy both, so it's all good. :)
From:
She's more like tofu...
Plus she and Kaworu are manifestations of agape which has NOTHING to do with popping Shinji's cherry dammitWhat can I say, I love the style. The book is almost 50% notes, but I get the sense Morrison wanted the audience to interpret it on their own...
I get the feeling before this day is over I'll have conceived a quasi-apocalyptic, pseudo-religious journey into the darkness of the soul re-imagining of Treasure Island. ::didn't even bring up the fact that he's watching Paprika finally::
From:
Hee. Yeah, Tofu-tool.
I'm not sure I know what that means ... they're manifestations of shock?
I get the feeling before this day is over I'll have conceived a quasi-apocalyptic, pseudo-religious journey into the darkness of the soul re-imagining of Treasure Island.
Hee. I'm almost done with my book of RLS short horror stories (finally). I wonder how they'll match up.
::didn't even bring up the fact that he's watching Paprika finally::
I was supposed to see that at LAST YEAR'S film festival but didn't get around to it. But d00d, I am SO behind on all of the "classy anime for American critics to stoically respect and use as examples of the usefulness of animation in film." I haven't seen that film, Millennium Actress or Tokyo Godfathers or whatever. I'm a bad snob.
From:
Re: Hee. Yeah, Tofu-tool.
Er........
The weirder the better I say. Art Center has become scared of its dropping quality so now they're emphasizing originality as if being original was actually possible in a design school.
But, hopefully I'll dodge a lot of SIMPSONS DID IT with my project. I pray for the occasional gaps where I can sneakily stake my claim. XD;;
From:
Re: Hee. Yeah, Tofu-tool.
From:
no subject
::often finds himself advocating agape:: because, y'know, eros = healing sex fic